More on Molecular Hydrogen featuring Tyler W. LeBaron, Robert Slovak, and Dr. Angela Pogioli
Robert Slovak and Dr. Angela Pogioli talk with Tyler W. LeBaron to discuss more on Molecular Hydrogen
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (00:03)
Welcome, everyone, Dr. Angela here. I'm very excited today because we have with us, Tyler LeBaron, who is an expert in molecular hydrogen. He's actually the executive director of the Molecular Hydrogen Institute. Also, he teaches and he is a worldwide educator on the topic of molecular hydrogen. We, of course, have our expert water scientist, Robert Slovak, in the house as well. Of course, he was the early developer of reverse osmosis. It's a pleasure to be with both of you today. I think it's fascinating that back in 2009, Tyler, you were studying and you came across some research about molecular hydrogen.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (00:52)
Then around the same time, about a year later, Robert, actually developed the very first hydrogen tablet.
Robert Slovak: (01:00)
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:02)
Co developed, yes. Yes. If you'd like to talk a little bit about that, and take us back a decade.
Robert Slovak: (01:10)
Well, actually, as Tyler would point out, if I don't say it, that I actually missed the whole boat of, let's say, the functionality of molecular hydrogen and the mechanisms. Interestingly, I just came across his... This is of historical significance. This is the very first bottle from 2010, or among the first run, that was called the Active H-minus of what was the precursor of the modern hydrogen tablet. We didn't understand the mechanism because I didn't have the benefit of learning all the neat information Tyler was learning.
Robert Slovak: (02:05)
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (02:07)
Robert Slovak: (02:08)
We were thinking of this as an electron donor. Electron donors are reducing agents, and we thought of it in that way. We didn't ever suspect that the molecule of hydrogen itself was a unique antioxidant like molecule.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (02:28)
Well, let's take a step back, Robert, and let's get back to... Tyler, what fascinated you, back in 2009, when you came across this research from 2007? Tell us what fascinated you and how that changed your whole career.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (02:45)
Absolutely. It's interesting, the intersection that I'll have here with Robert getting back to his story, but in 2009, I had actually been introduced to alkaline ionized water, all right. I heard so many crazy, absurd and powerful testimonials as there is in that industry. I was like, "This is fascinating. I'm going to try to understand this." As I started to investigate some of these claims, I was like, "Wow. None of this makes sense, actually," and [inaudible 00:03:21], but there was some research showing that it has some therapeutic effects, but it wasn't really understood why that was.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (03:28)
A lot of people were talking about the benefits of alkaline water. We've alkalized our bodies and this type of stuff. I know Robert talked about this a lot, but just to put it in context, even if we subscribe to the alkalizing concept, well, alkaline water is not a buffer, so it can't really neutralize the pH of water or the pH of anything. In fact, sodium bicarbonate or baking soda, which is our body's natural buffering system, you can neutralize more acid with simply a teaspoon of baking soda than you could with over 700 liters of alkaline water at a pH of 10. Right there, it's like, "Well, then how can this water ever give you any benefit when it doesn't have the alkalinity," which we will talk about some more, but it's not a buffer.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (04:16)
The question was still then, "Well, then how can this water have therapeutic effects?" Well, the first question is, "Does it really have therapeutic effects?" Actually, that's what I first studied. I actually did a little study to see if it elicited any biological effects at all, because in science, the first thing is to confirm or refute that the phenomena is actually occurring. Then after that, you try to figure out what the mechanism is. Sometimes, people do it the other way around, or they think something's happened, and they have all these crazy conjecture of how it's happening, and then later on, it's like, "Well, you just wasted a lot of time because actually, it's not happening."
Tyler W. LeBaron: (04:51)
It's a correlation causation fallacy or placebo or something else. Anyway, I did some research, found that there really wasn't effect, and during some of my investigations and looking at the literature, I saw other papers that were talking about various biological effects of this alkaline ionized water. But still the secret sauce, the key ingredient remained elusive, and nobody really knew, but the one thing that people started to really gain a consensus on was the importance of the so called negative ORP or negative oxidation reduction potential, which I know is exactly where Robert fell right into the-
Robert Slovak: (05:32)
Tyler W. LeBaron: (05:34)
... equity as an electron donor and all of these things. That was the idea. I have this water. Somehow, it has this negative oxidation reduction potential, and so logically, it's like, "Oh, that means they can be [inaudible 00:05:48] antioxidants and reduce things without understanding there's..." Thermodynamics and reaction kinetics are totally separate areas that need to be discussed. But anyway, they were still not even clear what was responsible for the negative ORP. Some people thought, "Well, maybe this is like there's somehow these free electrons solvated in the water, or some extra energy or something."
Robert Slovak: (06:18)
Tyler W. LeBaron: (06:19)
It certainly isn't true, and in fact if it were true, not only would the water shock you with a few volts of electricity, but it would also be like a toxic-free radical, because it's a reactive electron, but now we know is simply when you take hydrogen gas, and dissolve it into water, you get this negative ORP, and that's all it is. That's what's responsible for the negative ORP. The one thing that did get a ride is the negative ORP is a good indicator of whether or not that specific water could be therapeutic for you, but that's specifically and exclusively due to the presence of hydrogen gas.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (07:02)
It was around this time, though, 2009, 2010 or so that I came across that article in Nature Medicine, that was published in 2007, that you mentioned, that showed that hydrogen acts as a therapeutic antioxidant. It was a really interesting study, because they just took a rat, and they did a stroke model basically, and this caused a lot of ischemia and reperfusion damage and everything. When you administered hydrogen gas through inhalation at a 4.6% concentration, which is important, because that's below the fungibility level, and so it can be clinically viable. When they give the hydrogen gas, that markedly suppressed the brain damage induced in this stroke model of the rat, so cerebral infarction.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (07:51)
That was pretty powerful. I then... I was-
Robert Slovak: (07:55)
Was that American research or Japanese?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (07:59)
That was the Japanese. That was the pioneer one. That was with Dr. Ohta Ohsawa in 2007. That was the one that really got the researchers interested in the therapeutic effects of hydrogen. I then, of course, have to make the connections with, "Okay, so this article is showing hydrogen gas is therapeutic, and of course, when they do electrolysis, which by the very definition of electrolysis is a decomposition of water, hydrogen and oxygen-
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (08:25)
Tyler W. LeBaron: (08:26)
Exactly. You're going to get hydrogen in the water, and maybe the hydrogen gas is going to be responsible for the effects, and subsequent research including a study that I was involved in we demonstrated conclusively that when you remove the hydrogen gas from alkaline ionized water, the therapeutic benefits are eliminated. When you simply infuse hydrogen gas into water through whichever method, you get all these therapeutic benefits, so hydrogen gas really is the secret sauce so to speak. A lot of these alkaline ionized water, these magnesium sticks, these types of tablets that Robert was talking about has nothing to do with somehow these free electrons, and Robert's very poor choice of wording, the H-minus, because, of course, that will be a hydride ion, which-
Robert Slovak: (09:17)
Well, it couldn't even exist for a couple microseconds.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (09:22)
Hack away. I mean, the pKa is 33, so you have to have a pH of 30 over on 33 or so, which of course is impossible, I mean, with typical product solvents. Anyway, that's... It's nothing to do with that. We are talking about molecular hydrogen as simply a [inaudible 00:09:40] diatomic molecule. Two hydrogen atoms get married, and they're happily ever after. That is the hydrogen molecule, and that is... Of course, the big thing with hydrogen now is using it as an alternative energy source, because it's three times more energy dense than gasoline, and so it's great for that as well, but now, we're finding that's also an alternative medicine as well.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (10:10)
You were fascinated by this, and then you went on to go to Japan, and you involved yourself in the research. When I was doing some studying, I found that there was an Italian MD back in 1798 that did write about the inhalation of hydrogen. We are all... Hydrogen is just the buzz right now. But going back, it was talked about so long ago, and even in '75, there was research by Texas A&M and Baylor. That was fascinating, and that it showed that with a hyperbaric hydrogen chamber that there was melanoma regression in an animal model, which is fascinating. That was back in '75.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (10:54)
Now, the majority of research has come out since 2007. There's over 1,000 different articles. What about 80 or more clinical studies so far?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (11:10)
Exactly. You're right. I went to Japan, because I wanted to research hydrogen gas. I actually contacted all the groups that were doing research on hydrogen, and I just found... Well, I just found that universities are the most intuitive, the most prestigious. They really get into the mechanisms, and so I did an internship at Nagoya University in the Department of Neurogenetics, and researched the molecular mechanisms of hydrogen gas on various cell signaling pathways. That's when I really saw with my own eyes that it really is having biological effects in cell culture and then in animal studies, and then subsequently in human studies and so on, so it's very fascinating.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (11:52)
But 2007, as you said, that's really was the pioneering article that spawned or exploded, no pun intended, a whole bunch of additional research. But you're right, that article in 1798, I found that. I saw my website's probably where you saw it from, but it was very interesting because back in 2010 or so, 2009, 2010, I was trying to find everything I could possibly find on the benefits or the science or the effects of hydrogen, and so I went through libraries and through databases, and just doing search and just hours and hours reading. I came across that book by this Italian physicist on the medical gases and things.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (12:41)
Lo and behold, he's talking about hydrogen. He's like, "If you mix three parts hydrogen with one part oxygen and four quarts of this, it just [crosstalk 00:12:52]." In a way, they're talking about it, and he's like, "But you get this immediate relief from inflammation in the lungs." I don't know. I was very fascinated by some of this conversation way back then, but then it was largely lost or not further studied. Then in 1975, that's what the article from Texas A&M and Baylor University. I mean, that's a pretty prestigious organization, university. It was very impressive. They basically took these mice, and did transplant in melanoma tumors, and they did a hyperbaric hydrogen therapy, and they had mal progression of the melanoma tumors.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (13:33)
It was very high pressure. It was like eight atmospheres of pressure, 97% hydrogen, 3% oxygen, so the moles or the amount of oxygen would be the same at 21%, but of course, the atmospheric pressure was so much higher that you have enough oxygen.
Robert Slovak: (13:49)
Did they say why they were even motivated to try hyperbaric hydrogen? I mean, did it have anything to do with diving? They saw something in a diver, something like that.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (14:00)
Well, it's a funny story. Actually, they were interested because the first article that really showed therapeutic effects of hydrogen, well, was... Actually, I'm going to back up. That article, one of the reasons this article, another article, in France that was also published that hydrogen has some therapeutic effects as well. Some of those link back to an article that was written in Nature second, the nature... It's like a satire column. I forget what it was really called, but this chemist, Drago chemist or something... I have to go back and look at it. He was actually... He would make comments all the time like strips of comedy, satire and things about chemistry and science and this kind of stuff.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (14:58)
He decided to write an article about the biological therapeutic effect of hydrogen gas. You can dissolve it and [crosstalk 00:15:07].
Robert Slovak: (15:07)
Oh my god.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (15:08)
Help with hangovers, and it's [crosstalk 00:15:10]. It's going to have all these benefit. I mean, it was just a total joke. I mean, everyone laughed about it, because how ridiculous is that? This was in the 1960s or something.
Robert Slovak: (15:19)
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (15:20)
Tyler W. LeBaron: (15:21)
The [inaudible 00:15:23] chemist or something. He had all of this information. It was actually quite scientifically sound. It's just laughable, because that's not how it works until we find out actually it does work that way. Some of that, it was actually what spawned some of the researchers in France to do this study. Then with these guys from Baylor, they were just also interested in the fact that hydrogen gas as a reducing agent could react with hydroxyl radicals. When you have ionizing radiation and different problems, you produce hydroxyl radicals, and so you can have a reaction to neutralize those toxic radicals.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (16:06)
That was some of the impetus there, but the thing you have to consider, though, is hyperbaric hydrogen, especially at eight atmospheres of pressure is completely impractical. I mean, when they do hyperbaric oxygen therapy, they're probably at, I don't know, two atmospheres-
Robert Slovak: (16:23)
Tyler W. LeBaron: (16:24)
... or less. Going to eight atmospheres of pressure, it's just not... It's like a compressor bomb now. I mean, there's some safety concerns there.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (16:36)
It's not practical.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (16:38)
Right. I think the reason why the Nature Medicine publication has such a great impact is because it found two things. Number one, such a low level of hydrogen inhalation. Like I said, [inaudible 00:16:52] level makes it clinically relevant. Then simply by dissolving the gas in cell culture at, again, clinically relevant concentrations that you could get either from inhalation or simply drinking hydrogen rich water. Then you actually saw therapeutic, protective antioxidant effects in cell culture as well. That's one research like, "Wow, we really need to take a look at this because hydrogen is so ubiquitous. It's safe, and we should look at it."
Tyler W. LeBaron: (17:22)
Like you said, there's now probably closer to 2,000 publications and over 100 human studies on benefits of hydrogen.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (17:32)
Taylor, a lot of our audience is into antiaging. Now, there's so much talk about aging as a diagnosis, as a disease. Robert and I are both people who have notoriously taken a lot of different supplements for many years, so I try to take things that have broad range benefits. That's why I love hydrogen so much. Name me one system in the body that is not impacted by hydrogen.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (18:07)
Well, I mean, I do wonder if maybe the... I like to know about the red blood cells because they lack mitochondria, and hydrogen gas seems to have a major benefit on the mitochondria and a lot of the mechanisms, because the stem from that is an upstream target, but then you also... Actually, you still have studies showing benefits in the cell membrane itself, so I don't really know.
Robert Slovak: (18:35)
We have fingernails.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (18:41)
Maybe it's your fingernails, but [crosstalk 00:18:41].
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (18:41)
[crosstalk 00:18:41]. When we're talking about the endocrine system, the cardiovascular system, when you're looking at a system [crosstalk 00:18:47]. I'd like to shift gears, and for some of the audience that may be new to hydrogen, let's talk about some of the main reasons hydrogen is different, molecular hydrogen, namely, that it's selective, that there's high bioavailability. There's no toxic byproducts. Can we talk a little bit about, for example, the selectivity, because so many people don't quite understand that you could be taking too many antioxidants? There may be a downside to that.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (19:28)
I think that's one of the unique things that set hydrogen apart or uniquely qualify it as a superior antioxidant is the fact that it is selective and it's selective in several different ways. One of the most obvious ways from a chemistry perspective is simply that hydrogen gas does not have the reducing power or the reactivity to react with normal free radicals. First, let's talk about free radicals. Obviously, there are bad free radicals, but the fact is that there are good free radicals too, right? Just like cholesterol, there's... This is an example, but you have HDL cholesterol, which is a good kind, and LDL is a bad kind.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (20:15)
You can't just say cholesterol is bad, right? You have [crosstalk 00:20:18].
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (20:18)
It's all about balance.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (20:23)
We could say the same thing about free radicals. Maybe a bad one would be the hydroxyl radical or another oxidant, paradoxical nitrite. Those ones being primarily bad, we would consider there to be some benefits on accident from them. Then you also have other things such as nitric oxide or superoxide, hydrogen peroxide, these oxidants. They're quite goofy. They're very important. I mean, nitric oxide is what induces vasodilation. That's very important for our health, so we don't want to neutralize all of them. Typically, your antioxidants, they contain a delocalized conjugated pi structure, which allows them to donate an electron quite easily, and then they can neutralize all these antioxidants quite simply.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (21:15)
Now, that makes it so these antioxidants are not selective. They're not discriminatory at all, and they're just able to react and neutralize any antioxidant or any free radicals. Whereas with hydrogen gas, it's very stable. It doesn't give off its electrons very easy at all. It's actually very difficult. If you put hydrogen gas in combination with nitric oxide or hydrogen peroxide or other oxidants, you really don't have any reaction at all without a catalyst or a very high temperature or something. Just like you put hydrogen and oxygen together, they're totally safe until somebody lights a match, and you know where that goes.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (21:59)
That's one reason why hydrogen gas is very unique is because it's selective. It only can react with or neutralize the most toxic free radicals, but it's going to leave alone the important biological signaling molecule, so when we exercise, when we just do normal metabolism, we're producing small amounts of free radicals all the time, which is so important for overall mitochondrial health and for ourselves, because it's part of cell communication, and cell signaling are these free radicals, so we don't want to neutralize them, and hydrogen gas doesn't, but it is able to neutralize the hydroxyl radicals.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (22:41)
However, even with those free radicals that are good for you like nitric oxide or superoxide, when the levels get too high, then they become bad, because they are still oxidants. They're still very active. They still damage your cell membranes. They still cause all these problems. Typically, you want to have an antioxidant status that is able to balance out the oxidants, but with aging and with diseases or just the way food is or all these different solutions, all these ionizing radiation, so many problems, that starts to deplete our antioxidant status, and starts to increase the free radical production, and now you have this dysregulation and imbalance, where now we're going to actually start having an oxidative stress.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (23:30)
Now, hydrogen is still able to help regulate and suppress this type of oxidative stress, even though it doesn't have the power or the ability to react with those free radicals like nitric oxide and superoxide. It will still lower that oxidative stress. The way it does that is through its signal modulating effects, so those free radicals like nitric oxide, for example, when you get too much of that, that typically happens because you have high inflammation with the macrophages, interleukin-60 cytokines that are activating iNOS activity. That's inducible nitric oxide synthase. We have three different enzymes, iNOS, eNOS, endothelial nitric oxide synthase, and nNOS, neuronal nitric oxide synthase.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (24:21)
When iNOS gets activated during some inflammatory cascade or something, then you produce a lot of nitric oxide, which in the short term and for different reasons is very important for you, because that's how you inactivate pathogens and viruses and these things that's very good, but if it's too active, you're going to get a lot of damage, oxidative damage, and hydrogen gas has the ability to suppress iNOS activity. There's one way I'm explaining in which hydrogen gas is able to prevent this oxidative stress because it's able to regulate upstream these enzymes that are producing those free radicals in the first place.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (24:57)
Another one is the superoxide anion radical. This is often produced when you have hyperactive NOX enzymes. It's an NADPH oxidase system that takes oxygen, and gives an electron and converts it to the superoxide radical. Then that was also involved in immunity and all the beneficial things we want. But again, when that gets hyper activated, then it's too much, and it causes that serious oxidative damage leading to cellular apoptosis and tissue necrosis and, essentially, cell death, and then multi-organ failure and so on, right?
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (25:38)
Robert Slovak: (25:41)
Does hydrogen to have any direct loop into increasing the response of SOD catalase, glutathione when this event starts happening, and you need to address excess reactive oxygen species, or-
Tyler W. LeBaron: (26:00)
That's another good point. In this other mechanism, we're talking about suppressing these enzymes that are hyperactive, so we suppress iNOS. Hydrogen can also suppress the NOX enzymes when it's producing too much superoxide. Talk about two ways so far that hydrogen is able to regulate the antioxidant, and redox balance of the cells, one with selectively against the toxic free radicals and another with suppressing too much free radical production. The third way is actually exactly what you said. This is probably the most important way is it's able to upregulate and bring back to homeostasis our body's innate natural antioxidant enzymes, such as your superoxide, dismutase, glutathione peroxidase, and glutathione in general through the other enzymes, and heme oxygenase-1, for example.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (26:55)
Then [inaudible 00:26:55] this because it's able to activate the Keap1-Nrf2 pathway. That's just a cell signaling pathway, an antioxidant response pathway where when Nrf2 gets activated in the cytosol, they split apart enough to go to the nucleus and cause the DNA to be transcribed to produce a bunch more antioxidant proteins. These are detoxification and antioxidation enzymes. Yes.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (27:24)
Tyler, one of the most exciting things for me is the increase in PGC-1alpha. For people who are more concerned about fatty acid metabolism and mitochondrial biogenesis and that sort of thing, can you talk a little bit about how it impacts?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (27:43)
I agree. That's also a very fascinated area because hydrogen have been shown to increase PGC-1alpha levels, which is a marker of mitochondrial biogenesis. It appears to do that the most in the cases where there's a problem. In mice, for example, when there's some genetic defect, and they're leptin deficiency or something in these areas, mitochondria myopathies, then you're going to see higher levels of the activation of PGC-1alpha, because you're not in homeostasis. You need more ATP. You need more mitochondria. Hydrogen is able to do this. One of the studies, they found that hydrogen was able to increase the hepatic growth factor of FGF21, fiberglass growth factor 21, which induces energy expenditure.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (28:35)
This is going to help with things like fatty acid oxidation. Of course, the mitochondria are able to burn fats, and do it efficiently without producing too many free radicals. The benefits there then is you have the group of athletes, for example. Maybe you can get some potentiating benefits with molecular hydrogen for your mitochondria, your metabolic health and fitness, and then also in disease conditions, chronic conditions like chronic fatigue syndrome. Well, so many different conditions, they're linked to mitochondrial dysfunction or low ATP production, and so hydrogen could potentially help.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (29:21)
Well, that could potentially explain one of the reasons why hydrogen appears to be helpful in these types of conditions.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (29:29)
What's interesting is we are up regulating mitochondrial function, so very beneficial for athlete's just overall energy, but then we're able with this selective antioxidant to target the most cytotoxic free radicals, the most harmful free radicals that are produced are created within the mitochondria. This hydrogen gets into the mitochondria because it is the smallest molecule. What you have is a problem with the bioavailability of other nutrients that someone might be taking, that might not have that same impact.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (30:11)
That's a very important point, because obviously, the only way something can benefit you is if you actually consume it, if you get it administered to you somehow, but then it's not just that simple. That has to get into the cells. Then it's not that simple. It has get to where you want it to get so that you have the mitochondria. What if you want to get inside the matrix of the mitochondria? How are you going to do that? You have to go through the intestines, and now, it get degraded from the stomach acid or enzymes or the bacteria or something. Then you have to make it into the liver, which a lot of things get metabolized by the first-pass effect of the liver very quickly, so now it's inactivated before it reaches systemic circulation, and then it's in the blood.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (30:59)
But now it has to go through the capillaries and into the interstitial space through diffusion, and then it needs to go to the cells, and now it's got to somehow get through this hydrophobic cell membrane, which it's going to have to often go through a protein transport or a carrier or something to get it in there, otherwise, it's not going to go. Then once you're in the cell, you're in the cytosol, great. Now, what do you do? Well, if you go to get to say the mitochondria, well, all right, so you can diffuse through the outer mitochondrial membrane. For the most part, the larger molecules will be able to do that, but then you run up against the inner mitochondrial membrane, which is essentially impermeable to almost everything.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (31:44)
There's only five, six different things that will easily penetrate that, and so it's very difficult, whereas, yes, molecular hydrogen, because it is the smallest molecule in the universe, it's able to penetrate right through the cell membranes just based upon its diffusion. Not only because it's small, but also because it's a nonpolar neutral molecule, so something like sodium ion, I mean, it's just one atom. It's the sodium ion. It's small, but that doesn't just go through the cells at all. In fact, it has to go through specific ion channel, a sodium channel, and that's highly regulated, and the channels are so specific that they can distinguish and differentiate between a sodium ion and a potassium ion, which it's all based from the solvation sphere of how it's going to get in the cell.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (32:40)
I mean, it's very selective, very specific, and so just because something is small also doesn't assume it's going to get through, and then you want something that's neutral, but then water is also neutral, right? But water also can't easily penetrate the cell membranes, because it's a polar molecule. That's why it has the oxygen and then the hydrogens on both sides instead of just being linear. It has that triangle shape. That's because of the polar molecule, and so water can't go through the cell membrane. It has to go through another protein channel, which we know is the aquaporin.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (33:20)
I'm just putting all of this comparison so that you can see, yes, hydrogen, it doesn't have an electron because it's a neutral and nonpolar molecule. It's a small diffusible gas, and so it gets there everywhere. Now, the downside to that is or the... The theoretical downside to that therefore, it should not have any biological benefits. Because if it's not charged, if it's nonpolar, if it's all these things, then how can it react with the receptor or bind to something or some protein or something like this? Yet, it does. It does have biological effects. We're getting closer to understanding some of that mechanisms as to why, but that certainly now we see is a very neat benefit of molecular hydrogen, that it is so bioavailable, the most bioavailable of any other molecule.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (34:12)
Maybe, I guess, now we consider one of the downsides then is because hydrogen gas is so permeable and evasive, it's difficult to contain, so hydrogen, you can't store it in your plastic bottle. You can have carbonated water, but co2 is a pretty large molecule, carbon, two oxygens, and it can stay in a plastic container quite well. Hydrogen is not going to do. You put a hydrogen water in a sealed bottle, and give it some hours, some time, and the hydrogen gas is going to diffuse right through the plastic container.
Robert Slovak: (34:47)
Doesn't that bring us to a point we ought to at least provide some of our less biochemically-oriented audience with some practical stuff? Like, how do you... Where [crosstalk 00:35:02] guys?
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (35:03)
How do you [crosstalk 00:35:04]? What's the best way to get it?
Robert Slovak: (35:06)
I mean, well, maybe it's not even the best, but people, you can just breathe. You can breathe hydrogen from a bottle of hydrogen. You can use a device called a hydrogen inhalation device that uses either electrolysis to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen, or something a little more modern, a proton exchange membrane apparatus to allow having access to inhalation of hydrogen. Then, of course, maybe after that, there's the tablets.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (35:47)
Which are metallic magnesium that-
Robert Slovak: (35:50)
This is [crosstalk 00:35:51] happening cool way, and you put a tablet for those who don't even know this, and you can see this makes... This is [crosstalk 00:36:02] makes oxygen.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (36:06)
[crosstalk 00:36:06]. Those tablets are different than your H-minus tablets from 2010?
Robert Slovak: (36:13)
Yeah. I'm reluctant to open this brand new bottle, but it sounds like there's still tablets in it, but we did have a stability problem for a couple of years in which they disintegrated, but it's an interesting [crosstalk 00:36:31].
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (36:30)
Which reminds me, because it's such a complex tablet, when you drop it into water, there's metallic magnesium that reacts, and it produces the h2 gas, but you want to drink that immediately. Otherwise, the longer it sits, the longer that gas dissipates, and you don't get that clinical effect.
Robert Slovak: (36:50)
I mean, this is only maybe good for another 10, 15 minutes, and then it's gone. Then there's a very handy gadget.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (37:01)
Tyler W. LeBaron: (37:01)
Robert, you got to go back because I disagree. We did test with outlets with the gas chromatography. You don't have 10 or 15 minutes. Right now, you should be drinking that. As soon as [crosstalk 00:37:14].
Robert Slovak: (37:14)
I realized that, and I will take your order.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (37:17)
Start doing it right now, Robert. Start drinking it. I want to see the whole thing gone before I finish.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (37:25)
Down. Down it, Robert.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (37:27)
Look at that.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (37:29)
Isn't it that within five minutes, you're hitting peak plasma levels between five and 15 minutes?
Robert Slovak: (37:34)
Well, let Tyler tell us. I really don't know the latest time. I mean, I tell people basically, "You have to drink this in less than 10 minutes."
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (37:45)
Right away. As soon as it dissolves is what I tell people.
Robert Slovak: (37:47)
I really know the curve, the latest curve.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (37:53)
Well, I mean, based upon what we saw with the gas chromatography, and you can talk with the company, there's stuff more, but basically, as soon as that... If you're using... You don't want to use cold water. You don't need ice cold water, because the reaction is way too slow. You use about room temperature water. As soon as that tablet rises to the top, that's when you start drinking it. By the time you're finished, the tablet is completely dissolved. That's simply going to give you the highest dose of hydrogen that you'll be able to get. Now, yes, if you waited for 10, 20, even an hour, you're still going to get hydrogen.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (38:30)
In fact, you'll probably still get more hydrogen drinking it an hour later than you would with a lot of the products on the market just because the tablets and how the tablets work, so-
Robert Slovak: (38:44)
There are little gadgets that generate. These are gadgets as opposed to professional inhalation devices, and these just generate. They either use proton exchange membrane or a little electrolysis unit. You can see the hydrogen being made, and it turns off. These can generate maybe 1.6 to two parts per million. You can do it multiple times, and get up to maybe three parts per million.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (39:17)
I think we should mention though that there is some customer confusion on this, because when someone is dealing with a hydrogen-generating machine, and they're using electrolysis, there's always that danger of the production of ozone or chlorine, or there could be even some heavy metals. Also, [crosstalk 00:39:44] consistency.
Robert Slovak: (39:45)
[crosstalk 00:39:45] from what, Angela?
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (39:48)
What was that?
Robert Slovak: (39:49)
Using what kind of device?
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (39:52)
With electrolysis devices to generate the hydrogen, but there's an issue with consistency and the amount being produced. That's why sometimes, I have people asking us, "What's the difference between this machine and the tablets?" I say, "Hey, you can easily get H2Blue, and test the concentration that you're getting," because for me, personally, I want to get the highest dosage, and that cycle that Tyler talks about it, it's better to cycle high dosing rather than getting an even lower dosage on a longer term basis.
Robert Slovak: (40:35)
Which would favor tablet use, et cetera.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (40:40)
Well, just to add what you were saying, Robert and also Angela, just some of the caveats on this, it is true, you can get hydrogen from a tank of gas, like you said, but that's... You just healthcare to be careful because not all hydrogen gas is pure. I mean, a lot of the hydrogen gas is broken down hydrocarbons, and now, you're going to be inhaling a bunch of [crosstalk 00:41:00].
Robert Slovak: (41:00)
This would not be a consumer [crosstalk 00:41:02].
Tyler W. LeBaron: (41:02)
I get emails from people who are like, "I bought a tank of gas, and I feel great." I'm like, "You're probably not inhaling hydrogen."
Robert Slovak: (41:09)
Oh my god.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (41:12)
You just need to be a little cautious on this, and even Angela was saying some of these products, they are producing now chlorine as a byproduct, which isn't the worst thing, obviously, but maybe other things when you get lots of heavy metals, ozone, just all these issues can happen. Then with these products like that portable one you showed, I don't know that one, but I will say a lot of those products don't actually make the 1.6 ppm. They make .1 ppm or-
Robert Slovak: (41:48)
Tyler W. LeBaron: (41:49)
... or they can make high. You just don't know. Then even if it is making that high, initially, maybe after some many weeks or whatever, maybe the electronics, the batteries, the electron corrosion, the-
Robert Slovak: (42:02)
The impurities in the water end up impacting the reacting device.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (42:09)
I like those units if they're good, if they're not getting no heavy metals and stuff, but I feel like people who want to use it, you'd almost want to either really know the company you're buying it from, that they're aboveboard on testing and all this stuff, and or you buy, what Angela said, this H2Blue reagent, and you just tested every so often to make sure that it's up to par. It's still doing what it did when you first got it, and just some things to consider about products. But as Angela says, some people, it seems they just like the tablets, because it's so consistent. You get a high dose every time, and you get that, right?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (42:53)
Consistent products would be the tablets and the ready to drink products. That would be a very consistent product, but it's not... This is the only one.
Robert Slovak: (43:03)
The tab morphed into different forms of the tablets. One that we came out with is the one that involves Chromax, which is a glucose regulator in the body, so because hydrogen... Maybe you can comment on this. Hydrogen has metabolic benefits, especially for metabolic syndrome. When added with a chromium compound, it improves the performance of that even more, and a test was done. I think you were involved with this test to show that this is...
Tyler W. LeBaron: (43:58)
I wasn't involved with it, but it... I mean, certainly, chromium, especially if there's deficiency, has a major impact. I do wonder what this synergistic effects could be with the combination of hydrogen with other ingredients such as the chromium or other things that we've seen as soon as hydrogen is having synergistic effects with.
Robert Slovak: (44:22)
Do you have any comment while we're just on the tablet thing here reviewing the ways to take it? There is a product that we've come up with that is for soaking topical use.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (44:37)
I actually have some of those.
Robert Slovak: (44:40)
We call it the horse tablet.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (44:43)
I ran out of tablets. I had some of those. [inaudible 00:44:53] not supposed to because my knees is not quite as pure, but I really wanted some hydrogen. One time, I was in a hurry, and... You should not do this at home, but I swallow the tablet sometimes with some water. That's the only thing I had. I just got to get some [inaudible 00:45:11]. I swallowed that [crosstalk 00:45:15].
Robert Slovak: (45:15)
The large tablet?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (45:16)
The large tablet, yeah. I had a hard time getting it down. I had to drink so much water.
Robert Slovak: (45:22)
You should keep it from getting too hot.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (45:25)
With that warm in your throat.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (45:28)
I can feel it.
Robert Slovak: (45:30)
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (45:30)
Tyler, actually, one of the questions I wanted to know is how do you use hydrogen in your daily regimen? Can you share that with us?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (45:40)
Well, I mean, I guess I swallow those tablets on accident, but-
Robert Slovak: (45:46)
Can you describe that, please?
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (45:50)
Do you take it before or after your workout?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (45:52)
Well, I tend to take it before. I think maybe take in hydrogen in the morning, an empty stomach. Then I'm probably taking it before is often better, but often, I has to take it afterwards, because like, "I feel good. I'm going to go exercise." I have a good exercise. I come back. I'm like, "That was a really good exercise. I'm probably going to, I don't know, be sore. Maybe I'll take some hydrogen to help me recover faster." I often say it's probably better to take it before, but I think if I did some statistics on it, I probably mostly take it after I work out just on accident.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (46:32)
I ultimately use the tablets. I had some other products. I did have some of those portable units that I liked to just make a bunch of hydrogen, and then, of course, the ready to drink hydrogen water or hydrogen products for more of a pre-workout, I guess.
Robert Slovak: (46:50)
Well, let's talk about ready to drink. There's generally two different iterations of ready to drink. Probably the original type came in... What do we call it? A sack of flexible-
Tyler W. LeBaron: (47:09)
Robert Slovak: (47:13)
A pouch, a flexible pouch. I was wary of that from the very beginning. As far as I know, they aren't that reliable in containing and preserving the hydrogen load that's in the pouch.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (47:28)
Well, it all depends on what your parameters are. If talking about shelf life of months and years, then they're not because it has pinholes, and the hydrogen gas is eventually going to escape out, but when we're talking about a few weeks, a month, a couple months or just-
Robert Slovak: (47:47)
It better be nothing, but I don't think you're not going to get over to BPM or anything.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (47:53)
That's the other thing. You have two things. You have one, which is just the longevity. You put hydrogen in the can. If it seals correctly, it'll last. I mean, I [crosstalk 00:48:01].
Robert Slovak: (48:01)
No, the can is yet the way to go.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (48:05)
Robert Slovak: (48:05)
An aluminum can, it has to be aluminum, but aluminum does retain hydrogen. If the can is precisely made, and it is a factor, it has been very successful at providing a long lasting beverage and storage.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (48:26)
[inaudible 00:48:26] a higher concentration as well, because with the pouch, there's no pressure. There's no walls, so everything is going to be left to just atmospheric pressure, and so the highest... Even if you put in three milligrams per liter hydrogen concentration, well, that's just going to go into the head space, expand the walls a little bit until it reaches atmospheric equilibrium. Now, the highest concentration [inaudible 00:48:53] 1.4 to 1.6 ppm, often 1.2 ppm. Then over the coming weeks or days, depending on the type of pouch, I mean, some of them really don't work very well. It's just going to go down to undetectable levels.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (49:09)
That brings us to the research that was published in May of this year, looking at the molecular crosstalk between nitric oxide and molecular hydrogen in a beverage that contained some NO precursors along with molecular hydrogen that was infused in a specific beverage, a really fascinating research that's coming out there. Do you guys want to talk about that at all?
Robert Slovak: (49:42)
I think since Tyler is I believe he has the pole position in the research paper, that's quite-
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (49:52)
Congratulations by the way.
Robert Slovak: (49:54)
Congratulations. It's quite an impressive paper-
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (50:00)
Robert Slovak: (50:00)
... and an impressive journal that published it. Tell us about it.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (50:07)
It is interesting finding these synergistic effects because I'm most interested in trying to figure out the molecular mechanisms of hydrogen gas and how it's working. One of the ways it appears to help is with regulating the production and metabolism of nitric oxide. To set this up a little bit, well, first, we did some preliminary work with a functional beverage, hydrogen-infused nitric oxide producing beverage, the hydro shop products. In fact, I have one on my desk right here. It has two milligrams per liter of hydrogen, so it's a good concentration of hydrogen.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (50:50)
What is interesting is combining the therapeutic effects of hydrogen with that of nitric oxide. We understand that, and we understand that nitric oxide, how important it is for you as well as how detrimental it can be for you, right? The nitric oxide, of course, that's involved in vasodilation, involved in immune response, involved in so many signaling cascades. I mean, that's how Viagra works. I mean, actually, not really. Viagra is a phosphodiesterase inhibitor that nitric oxide activates, but point is it's like the same type of pathway. Nitric oxide is very important. The problem, of course, is when you get too much nitric oxide, such as what we talked about earlier, with the inflammation, you get activation of iNOS activity.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (51:36)
Now you have high levels of nitric oxide, formation of paradoxical nitrite, and just lots of damage. Actually, the way that the nitric oxide synthase enzymes work is they take an amino acid called arginine, and they convert it to citrulline and nitric oxide. When you have this inflammatory aspect going on, then you use up all the substrates to produce nitric oxide. When you need nitric oxide, you can't produce it, so when your eNOS, your endothelial nitric oxide synthase and your blood vessels need to make nitric oxide, it can't do it, let's say, because for two reasons. One, you have substrate depletion.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (52:15)
There's not the arginine around, because it's been used up by all the iNOS. It's hyperactivated everywhere in the body. Then two is just over the years, your nitric oxide synthase enzymes, your eNOS levels just don't function as well. You have NOS uncoupling that the amount decreases. This happens with age. I mean, by the time you're 70, 80 years old, you have 20% as much nitric oxide as you did when you were 20 years old. I mean, it's a very significant difference, so that decline nitric oxide with age, so we really want to do all we can to get those nitric oxide levels back up.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (52:53)
It's interesting if you give arginine to... administration of arginine, best amino acid makes nitric oxide, you can see some increase in nitric oxide, but it is very minimal because arginine is metabolized by the liver very quickly, so it's not able to be increased in the blood very well. When you give citrulline, which is the byproduct of arginine and metabolism, citrulline goes through this negative feedback method, and is able to increase the concentration of arginine in the systemic circulation. Now, when you want to make nitric oxide from your eNOS activity, you actually have substrate there, and you can make it, so citrulline has been shown to be more effective at increasing nitric oxide level than arginine supplementation.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (53:36)
Citruline, you can look at the literature. There's tens of thousands of publications on the therapeutic benefits of citrulline. I mean, there's a lot. This is where it gets really interesting now. When you combined the molecular hydrogen with the nitric oxide with the citrulline, you have potentially a synergistic, or at least an additive effect, because... You'll see this in the publication, but you have increased blood flow, which is number one. Then the blood flow was higher than whether you administer hydrogen alone or you administered the citrulline alone. It was higher, and it lasted for a number of hours.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (54:16)
A lot of nitric oxide boosting supplements, I mean, you're talking about 15, 30 minutes, and it goes back to baseline. This seemed to last for several hours, I mean, quite a while, and it was measured with blood flow, thermal imaging and the fractional exhaled nitric oxide. You can really see these changes. Now, you're thinking, "Okay, so we have increased nitric oxide levels. We see the improvements in blood flow, which is a big thing, especially for cognition." I mean, blood flow alone is... Cerebral blood flow decreases with age. By the age of 40, a decrease in 1% every year or 2% every year or something.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (54:57)
You want to make sure you have sufficient blood perfusion in your brain, or else, you start having no cells that get hypoxic, not enough oxygen, or you're not able to provide substrates, glucose and energy for the cells, or remove metabolic wastes, or removal of, say, your tau proteins implicated in Alzheimer's and so on, so you need to have good blood perfusion. Like I said, that decreases with age. Maybe that's partly because nitric oxide also decreases with age, so you can see an importance of maintaining the good levels of nitric oxide, and hydrogen is able to help do this with this combination.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (55:35)
Then like I said, not only just increased nitric oxide levels, but you got to regulate it, so you don't just increase it anywhere. You want to do it in the right locations at the right time and all of this, and hydrogen being able to regulate its production. Metabolism is very important. After we were able to see these results, we then just took it, and did some very early human studies with it. We need to replicate them on a larger placebo controlled, blah, blah, blah, but this is a very promising evidence, so I want to just quickly publish it and put it out there, because it's very, very interesting.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (56:12)
We found there was improvements, and your cardiorespiratory fitness is measured by your VO2 max, your functional threshold, your... Then another one that we did at the university that I teach at here, we did this basically a fatigue, about 50 repetitions of maximal isokinetic leg extensions. Have the machines measures how much torque is being produced. There's a very significant difference, a 27% increase in strength after drinking the product.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (56:43)
In what timeframe?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (56:45)
I mean, this was-
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (56:47)
Was it right after drinking?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (56:49)
Probably, it's 30 minutes or so between... 20 to 40 minutes is when I gave it to him. It was very interesting to look at, and so we're seeing... Then of course with the brain gauge, so the brain gauge, of course, is a very interesting somatosensory assessment tool that helps to see cognitive function, traumatic brain injuries, and it's very, very sensitive. They're using it in the highest levels, the military, university, a whole bunch of stuff, right?
Robert Slovak: (57:24)
Tyler W. LeBaron: (57:26)
Surprisingly, or not surprising, because it makes sense. When you increase blood flow, blood perfusion to the brain, nitric oxide and all these things, and the benefits of hydrogen alone on the brain, there's a lot of articles on that. There was significant improvements in the indices of cognitive function as measured by the brain gauge. That was pretty promising as well. Anyway, so there's... I would say it's this hydrogen and citrulline combination. It doesn't have to be maybe citrulline. I mean, this is just what the research was done, but we need to do research on maybe another nitric oxide, a di molecule, or producing molecule, and there's other ingredients in the product.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (58:12)
It has erythritol, which has antioxidant effects. It has quite a number of different therapeutic effects, and it's smaller than mannitol, so it has no gastrointestinal issues. I mean, you'd have to drink, I don't know, 50 grams or something for it to be a problem. This is sure a lot lower obviously, I don't know, five, 10 grams, but then you wonder maybe as soon as other ingredients in here are also important in potentiating this synergistic effect. I guess I'm just saying I don't know that it's as simple as just combining hydrogen with citruline or something, but maybe there's a specific proprietary ratio or something that [inaudible 00:59:01].
Tyler W. LeBaron: (59:01)
It's just something that we-
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (59:02)
Robert Slovak: (59:04)
Well, I mean, I think the hydro shot is in the informal test and at least one formal test that have been done. The reaction of users has been remarkable.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (59:22)
Robert Slovak: (59:23)
This is a product that begs to be explored.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (59:29)
It tastes good.
Robert Slovak: (59:29)
[inaudible 00:59:29] tastes good, but we can't even tell you the stories of even the famous people and the people who've tried it and what they did. I mean, it's almost a funny story, because I don't think anyone expected that this little RTD that could does so much. I mean, I encourage people when this... I think we're going to put it up on water and wellness, and make little special events for people to try it or buy a case of it, and just see and explore it. It's quite... I think you're going to find it quite remarkable.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:00:12)
Just for clarification, the hydro shot is around two ppm. The tablets produce around eight to 10 ppm, depending on the volume of water.
Robert Slovak: (01:00:25)
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:00:28)
Both have been found to be clinically beneficial. A lot of people use them in combination. There's a lot of athletes that just love the hydro shot. An area that is near and dear to my heart is in the cognitive benefits, because in that research, Tyler, it was the Journal of Science and Medicine, correct?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:00:54)
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:00:55)
They found that there was an increase in focus, speed and plasticity in the brain. There are so many people now that have cognitive decline much earlier than they should, because of the use of certain cholesterol lowering medication, and certain acid reflux medications and even hypothyroidism, which is epidemic, which is impacting the blood flow to the brain. Back to your point, Tyler, so many people need to take this proactive approach as you're getting older, and taking something like hydrogen that can impact the immune system and cardio metabolic health and all of these areas. It's so easy with just one tablet. That's why I love it.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:01:46)
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:01:47)
It makes it very simple, and that's what I'm saying. I mean, just a tablet a day keeps the... Well, maybe that's not... It's consistent, right? It's ready to drink. You just open it, and it's there. For some people, the tablets, eight, 10 milligrams per liter, I say milligrams per liter, because it's much better than ppm, parts per million. That's very confusing as is volume per volume or mass per mass or mole per mole. Anyway, if we say milligrams per liter, we're going to be [crosstalk 01:02:20].
Robert Slovak: (01:02:19)
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:02:20)
Robert Slovak: (01:02:22)
[crosstalk 01:02:22] marching orders, milligrams per liter.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:02:25)
No, but then with... It's interesting because the tablet produces super saturated levels. That's why it's all clouded like this. It's like millions of these nano bubbles and everything that's in there. That's why I have to drink it very quickly. You don't have to drink the Hydro Shot as quickly, because it's fully dissolved. Again, it's two milligrams per liter, which is still very high. It's higher than most product you'll ever find on the market, but it's fully dissolved, and so you don't have to be in this big of a rush, but it's still evaporated now, and so you still would want to drink it within a few minutes if you can.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:03:06)
It's 250 milliliters, 8.4 ounces, because we haven't fully converted to the metric system yet.
Robert Slovak: (01:03:15)
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:03:17)
Tyler, I'd like to ask you what are three things that you do on a daily basis that most impact your health, things, actions that you take to ensure that you age well?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:03:33)
I have to think about-
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:03:33)
Besides hydrogen use.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:03:42)
Robert Slovak: (01:03:42)
Will the 30 something entertain the words aging at all?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:03:50)
Yes. [crosstalk 01:03:51].
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:03:51)
Well, what is your... You don't have to give us your exact age, but-
Robert Slovak: (01:03:54)
[crosstalk 01:03:54] ever thinking that.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:03:55)
What's your age range?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:03:59)
I'm in my mid 30s, so that's...
Robert Slovak: (01:03:59)
30 something, yes.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:04:01)
30 something and not quite-
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:04:02)
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:04:02)
That's an even number, divisible by two. No, I... Of course, I like to exercise. My two focuses are cardiovascular, so aerobic exercise, high-intensity aerobic exercise. Actually, I like to compete in races, so I run. Right now, I'm doing three to five miles a day. I was doing 15 or 20 miles a day, but that's not healthy, but I was really trying to just do that for a little bit. I run, so I can compete in races and things. That's a lot of fun for me. Then I also do weightlifting because having muscle mass and the bone density and everything, that's something I really enjoy. I feel like you'd have to have both of that strength aspect because your muscles are not just muscles.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:05:02)
They're myokine... They produce myokines signaling from the muscles that's very important for overall health and longevity, so it's a very important area. Then, of course, I try to stimulate my mind as much as I can through, and novel intellectual constantly stimulating, reading philosophy, science or satire.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:05:29)
What's a good book that you've read over the past year?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:05:35)
I always struggle with this, because I feel like if I say it, it's like an endorsement and everything said in it, but I did just read... I just read this book, Breathe by James Lester, just the importance of nasal breathing and things, some very interesting... I mean, he's not a physiologist, so there were some things in there like, "Well, I could probably change that," but overall, I mean, it was very, very interesting. I have been doing focus more on the nasal breathing when I would go running, so I can normally do my first mile, two miles. I'll just only breath in my nose.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:06:12)
Of course, it's a slower pace, but I'm trying to increase my co2. [inaudible 01:06:20].
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:06:20)
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:06:22)
It's pretty easy for me now to just... I can hold my breath for three minutes pretty easy with just taking a hold of my breath. I think that's good. I think it has some benefits for... It activates some of the vagus nerve, more parasympathetic, and then just doing this resonant frequency breathing for heart rate variability, just trying to increase that. Anyway, so that's the most recent book that I had read. It was interesting. I enjoyed it.
Robert Slovak: (01:06:52)
Very cool. Very good report.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:06:55)
Robert, do you have any other questions?
Robert Slovak: (01:07:01)
I'm not sure that we have to be mindful of our time. I think we've gone over a little bit, but-
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:07:10)
Thank you so much, Tyler.
Robert Slovak: (01:07:12)
I really enjoyed this. This is the most I've enjoyed being with Tyler since I met him years ago. I think we should do more of these things, and explore even outside of the hydrogen realm.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:07:30)
That would be fun. I mean, there's always something new with hydrogen, but there's so much more out there, so it's hard to talk about other things, but...
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:07:41)
Tyler, should I take hydrogen before boarding an airplane? Will it help guard against some of the radiation [crosstalk 01:07:48]?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:07:48)
I thought you were going to say, "Would it help save on fuel," because everyone's going to be like, "[crosstalk 01:07:51] or something." Because hydrogen, one of the strong benefits that appears pretty clinically and clinical even is that it protects against some radiation toxicity. If you're flying really high, it might help. I think probably doing that before a flight could be a good idea. It'd be great to do a clinical study to look before and after. I think that's something that could be done in the future. But for now, the preclinical work is there. The hypothesis is there, so I-
Robert Slovak: (01:08:23)
Would you say it also offers some respiratory protective mechanisms?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:08:33)
Well, just because of how it helped with inflammation, right?
Robert Slovak: (01:08:39)
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:08:40)
Right. I mean, and whether you're inhaling it, if you just drink water, if you think about it, it's still going to go right to the heart, and then pump directly to the lungs, so you're still getting hydrogen to your lungs that way as well.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:08:57)
Perfect. Modulating the immune response.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:09:02)
All right, well, it was such a pleasure as always, Robert.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:09:05)
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:09:06)
I enjoyed your commentary.
Robert Slovak: (01:09:08)
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:09:09)
I'm glad you're redeeming yourself from your H-minus shenanigans back in the day.
Robert Slovak: (01:09:14)
I had to come clean, didn't I?
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:09:19)
That's wonderful. Angela, thank you as well. It's a pleasure.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:09:22)
Keep up the good work with the research, and I look forward to seeing more in regards to neurodegenerative conditions in the future.
Tyler W. LeBaron: (01:09:30)
Robert Slovak: (01:09:30)
See you, guys.
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:09:31)
All right, let's talk again.
Robert Slovak: (01:09:32)
Dr. Angela Pogioli: (01:09:33)